Cole: I am a citizen of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians in North Dakota. Usually, I’m in the Coast Salish territory in Seattle. I work for the Institute for Research to Educate and Advance Community Health. As soon as the pandemic started I applied for my PhD program in Indigenous health, and so I’ve been doing that for the last two years.
Josette: That’s so cool! I am currently standing in Olympia, Washington, on the Nisqually reservation, which is where I work. I’m a descendant of the Nisqually tribe. My grandfather was an enrolled tribal member. And I’ve been here with the health department for about 11 years. I live in Puyallup territory in Tacoma, Washington, with my wife, who also works at the tribe. She and I are both enrolled in the Masters of Public Administration program, tribal governance cohort, at Evergreen State College. We are set to graduate with our MPAs in about six weeks. I am also an inaugural commissioner on the Washington State LGBTQ Commission. I’m a research assistant with the Paths (Re)Membered Project, and I also work full time here in the Health Department. My focus over the last couple years here in health has really been expanding services for our Two Spirit and LGBTQ population here in Nisqually.
Mattee: I’m of the Zuni People Clan born for the Towering House People Clan, and I just started school in New Mexico. My major right now is human services. I went to school to get a certificate as a licensed drug and alcohol abuse counselor, but I’ve since been thinking about shifting to nursing. My whole purpose going to school is eventually to move home and work with or around my people.
Why did you decide to get your current grad school degrees?
Mattee: It was time for me to go back to school. I have experience in my field, and I come from the population that I serve in the trans advocacy work I do, but getting a document that says I went to school would give me more leverage, help me to advance and advocate for myself. I think it was personal too, because I’ve been doing the same work for over 20 years in HIV prevention and trans advocacy, and I wanted to do something different.
Cole: I was working after my master’s in consulting and craving more. I knew I wanted to go back to school. When the pandemic started, the program that I’m currently in had just opened up. It was the first Indigenous Health PhD program in the whole world and had a bunch of Native professors. They had an applied track. There were people there I knew I wanted to learn from, and I had a supportive work environment who said, Absolutely, we’re only going to benefit from having another Native PhD in our office. We’ll support you.
Tell us a little bit about your experience in graduate school.
Josette: I had a really different experience between my undergrad and my graduate program, even though they’re the same college. I did my undergrad in the Native Pathways Program, which is an extremely Indigenous positive and supportive environment. I came in as somebody who is an urban Native, I didn’t grow up on my reservation, I didn’t have strong ties to the community growing up. Going through that program really gave me the support and encouragement to figure out what it means to be an Indigenous woman. I divorced my ex-husband, left a situation that wasn’t serving me and my kids, and started to explore my sexuality. It was a really supportive environment through all of that. Grad school was different. Although I was in a tribal governance degree path, the act of being Indigenous in this program almost feels like an act of rebellion. We’re here, but we have to fight for it.
Mattee: Yeah, when I’m in class, I always have in the back of my head: How does our Native history play into this? I’ve brought that up over and over in different classes, especially in sociology. I sometimes remind the class and the instructor that we’re looking through a Western colonial lens. I know a couple of Native students in my class, who later were like, I’m really glad that you were vocal in bringing up those issues, because sometimes I’m scared to bring it up. I’m always raising my hand on trans issues or Native issues. I always have something to say.
Cole: I did my undergrad in North Dakota. So to me, it felt very comfortable because they did have a strong Native community across campus. After I graduated, I moved to Seattle and immediately went into grad school at a Masters of Health Administration program. I had two friends that lived here, but otherwise knew nobody. I just assumed that there would be a bunch of Native people there, and there’d be like a Native center, and I’d be able to go and have community. I did not find community as easily as I did at UND, which made me feel really isolated as classes got busier and busier.
However, Seattle was a more queer-friendly city, so it was an opportunity to be on my own and really figure things out. Any opportunity I had in class, I focused on the Indian Health Service and Native Health systems. I felt like I was teaching people. Sometimes it flirted on tokenizing. Other times, it felt like I did actually have strong, committed allies that were non-Native. I was explaining a lot. Now in my PhD program, I can just be. I don’t have to explain stuff. I can show up authentically. For example last year, as many students did, I had a lot of loss. Some of it expected, some of it very unexpected. And I think because I was in this PhD program, I was more present in those feelings. I was surrounded by Native people. I was thinking about our communities, and my grandma, and my niece, and I don’t think I would have been able to be as present in a different program.
Any advice on choosing a more supportive program?
Josette: My recommendation to queer Indigenous folks would be to not only look at the program that you’re going into, but really look at the culture of support and inclusivity at the college. Talk to students in the program or graduates of the program and find out what their experience was like. What kind of support did they get when they were struggling? Because grad school is difficult. The majority of our classmates are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. Almost all of us work full time. Our program was really supportive of my wife and I working as a team, doing our research on the intersectionality of being queer and Indigenous and how COVID has impacted that. Now we’re working on this capstone toolkit that we’ll distribute at Nisqually. It was important to have a program that gave enough flexibility that we were able to design work that really makes an impact.
Cole: Yeah, I second that. And I would encourage people to look out into your field, look at other schools. Somebody knows somebody who’s doing what you’re trying to do and can act as a mentor, whether it’s formal or informal.
What about logistically—any advice about scholarships or finances?
Cole: Well this whole notion that you have to go to the best school and have the best degree from a super reputable school to get a job just does not compute. Do not lean into that. There are people doing this work all across the country. There’s lots of really great state schools, places where you can get the degree and the experience to go with it for less money.
Josette: I’m an older student and an unconventional student, whatever the hell that means. I have an established career, and so does my wife. We’re a two-income household. So obviously, our financial situation going into a master’s program was very different than most people’s. And like Cole said, I didn’t care about that prestigious title. Evergreen is dirt cheap, as far as colleges go. And for me, that was important, because when I went initially for my BA, I was a single mom. I didn’t have a college or a tribal scholarship or anything like that. I got really good at scholarship hunting, which is about leaning into your identities and finding scholarships that match those. I’m a multiple-year Pride Foundation Scholarship recipient. The Nisqually tribe also created a nonprofit that gave descendants college scholarships, so I was able to receive one of those. Every little bit helps.
Mattee: Yes, partake of all the scholarships you can. Fill out the FAFSA if you’re beginning an undergrad program, and if you get money from FAFSA, pay for school before you go out and spend.
What comes next for you?
Josette: I already work with the Nisqually tribe in the health department, and this is where I want to stay. I’m hoping to retire from here. But I hope to use the education and experience I gained in my master’s program to build healthier environments for 2SLGBTQ folks here at the tribe.
Cole: I’m really passionate about working with elders. Last year, I lost my last living grandparent. I keep hearing that we rarely see young Native people interested in working with Elders, so I’m planning to continue in that work. My hope for the future is to do a little bit of work, a little bit of teaching, a little bit advocacy.
Any other advice for folks about college or grad school?
Mattee: I would encourage people at a younger age to go to school, get that paper. And while in school always, especially as Native people, really look at the history of our people and infuse it into the work that you’re doing, because this education—even though it’s great, it’s fabulous, and we’re telling our people to go to school and help your people—we also have to remember that some of our shared trauma was about education. The government forced our people to go to school. There’s still that legacy, so as you sit in those classrooms, keep in mind that we are Native. My biggest thing is that we shouldn’t forget that.
Josette: Yeah, educational trauma is real. I’m graduating with a woman who—this is her fourth time attending this program to finish out her MPA. And she comes from a long history of educational trauma that she’s been having to work through. All of us have it, even if we don’t realize it. Attending public schools in predominantly white spaces leaves us with educational trauma. So my other piece of advice for Native students pursuing grad school is give yourself grace. Give yourself grace to have bad days. Give yourself grace to just be in bed on a Saturday and not do work. Don’t put the expectations of your tribe and your community and your family and your ancestors on you 24/7, because none of us are superhuman. Grad school is hard. It’s going to have great times, and it’s going to have awful times. If it works out the first time through perfectly, that’s awesome. And don’t beat yourself up if it doesn’t. We are drilled with this expectation that you have to get straight A’s and you have to have a 4.0. And you have to strive for an Ivy League, or whatever. I turned 40 this year. I’m having my first grandchild in June and also graduating with my degree. I never thought I would be in this space. Give yourself grace to enjoy the process as much as you can. It can be big and scary and hard. But you get to the end of it, and you’re like, Wow, I am so proud of myself.
